You are viewing indyeagleeye

Eagle Eye

Previous Entry | Next Entry


Jane Merrick: Kaminski row: Is the past three weeks ago?

Posted by Eagle Eye
  • Friday, 30 October 2009 at 08:30 am


The row over Michal Kaminski, the leader of David Cameron's grouping in Europe, continues to rage. And it should, because there remain deeply disturbing doubts over the past - and possibly the present - thoughts of Kaminski.

The Chief Rabbi of Poland, Michael Schudrich, has just been interviewed on the Today programme clarifying his stance over Kaminski - he issued a statement this summer expressing concern about Kaminski's past, including his part in the campaign to oppose an apology for the killing of hundreds of Jews at Jedwabne in 1941. This week, he issued a statement saying he objected to the claim that he he had Kaminski was an anti-Semite.

In today's interview, Rabbi Schudrich made clear that Kaminski's membership of the far-right NOP party as a teenager and his opposition to the apology were "problematic", but that this was all in the past and since then he had been a good friend of Israel.

He's right - in that Kaminski was a teenager, and that the Jedwabne apology happened in 2001. But has Rabbi Schudrich seen these comments, made by Kaminski just three weeks ago in an interview with Martin Bright in the Jewish Chronicle, published on 8th Oct? Did the interviewer, Jim Naughtie, know about them? This interview was not exactly in the past. Yes, Kaminski said that anti-Semitism is something "contradictory to all my beliefs". But here are Kaminski's further comments in full, this month, about the rounding up and burning alive in a barn of at least 300 Jews in Jedwabne in 1941:

“I think that it’s unfair comparing it with a Nazi crime and putting it with the same level as the Nazi policy.”

“My position is that there were acts of collaboration of the Jewish people with the Soviet army when the Soviet army came to Poland. It’s a fact. It’s a historical fact… If you are asking the Polish nation to apologise for the crime made in Jedwabne, you would require from the whole Jewish nation to apologise for what some Jewish Communists did in Eastern Poland.”

I'll leave it for others to decide whether they are concerned by his words.

Comments

But what about the Pope
deimosp wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 11:39 am (UTC)
If we look into the early years of the Pope we find some "unsavoury" things there. That did not stop him becoming lord and master of the entire worldwide Catholic Church, becoming infallible and even Tony Blair was happy about this.

In war there are invariably atrocities. That does not justify them but they always seem to happen in practice. (War is stupid and daft and stupid and daft things happen). It is an aspect of war. Look and what some US/UK troops did in Iraq. That some (few) UK/US troops behaved diabolically does not automatically mean that what they did was part of government policy. (The acts are despicable, but so is war). To separate a specific one off atrocity from a policy is quite reasonable. It does not mean you agree with either.

There are a lot of things wrong with the Conservative policy (lots wrong with Labour policy and lots wrong with Lib Dem policy) but this continual trying to "get at" Cameron because of one Polish politician is just daft - so daft that even Milliband has started on it (only to have what he claimed proved wrong by the Rabbi).
Kaminski
samarobrin wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 12:13 pm (UTC)
No I don't think its problematic. His logic is simple: it was not the Polish state that caused the crime (unlike the Nazi-caused holocaust) - it was Polish individuals/criminals. This was a crime but it makes no sense for the Polish state to apologise for it, criminal and awful though it was. Some jews in Poland carried out acts which also were crimes - should all Jews ('the jewish state' effectively) apologise for that - obviously not. End of discussion.
Its a shame that so many on the left think it clever to insult people, countries, parties etc abroad as part of a sad local agenda to desperately stay in power at any cost even though they have utterly failed this country. Sigh.....
Re: Kaminski
dave1234567890 wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 07:51 pm (UTC)
The left have tried it with Coulson and now Kaminski and in both cases they have failed to damage Cameron in any way. People in this country are not interested who the MEPs are linked to, they are far more concerned about losing their jobs ,their homes and their businesses. They are concerned that the country has massive debts which will take 20+ years to pay back and they are concerned that they have a Prime Minister that is incompetent and continually lies, whether it is over the European referendum or the 10p rate. These topics are what will cause Labour to be humiliated at the next election, not MEP groupings.
But meantime in Latvia...
reinertorheit wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 08:38 pm (UTC)

Far more worrying is the inclusion of the Latvian "Fatherland & Freedom" party in this Unholy Alliance.

Their leader has regularly attended Nazi rallies in Riga during which the members of the Waffen-SS who died in WW2 were commemorated, and their exploits honoured. The Swastika is banned from all public use in Germany - and yet the Fatherland & Freedom party proudly march through the Latvian capital with the Swastika on their banners??

And William Hague tries to sweep this all under the carpet??
Dear me, Mr Miliband ...
john_b_ellis wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 09:20 pm (UTC)
... another banana ...
span_ows wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 09:32 pm (UTC)
Jane, perhaps you could elaborate on these "deeply disturbing doubts" that I presume you have, else why write it. Then...

"I'll leave it for others to decide whether they are concerned by his words."

I decide that I wasn't at all concerned when I found out what he said and what happened. It turns out he's perfectly right; the fact that you post what he said but fail to tell us what you find disturbing is a bit...erm...disturbing.

janemerrick wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 10:40 pm (UTC)
Sorry, I thought I'd made that clear in the blog. Happy to tell you:
1. That he thinks the rounding up and buring alive of 300 Jews is somehow on a lesser level than Nazi war crimes against the Jews (to me that's disturbing, maybe it isn't to you);
2. That he still thinks the Poles should not apologise for Jedwabne until the Jews apologise "for what they did" - sounds to me like a sort of tit-for-tat relativsm that seeks to brush aside the horror of this atrocity;
3. The fact that he has changed his story on a number of occasions - including, telling a journalist this year he never did an interview with Nasza Polska in which he made clear the Poles shouldn't apologise, then had to admit he had done so.
span_ows wrote:
Saturday, 31 October 2009 at 07:20 pm (UTC)
...lesser level? He certainly didn't mean it how you and others are trying to make out. He was saying "from the beginning was that it was a terrible crime and I am ashamed that the Polish people were involved in this crime."

He condemned it but said it was more of a Pole against Pole tit-for-tat slaughter: and "what those bandits did at Jedwabne was totally against Polish law, Polish customs and Polish culture." ...but that it couldn't be compared to the state policies of the Nazi government: State devised and State controlled "final solution" of mass extermination.

...and as someone else has added, Charles Crawford (an ex UK Ambassador to Poland, and in on meetings with Tony Blair and the then Polish PM, with Kaminski in attendence) points out that Mr Buzek – another ex Polish PM - AGREED with Kaminski re the resaons for or not making an apology - is now President of the European Parliament!!
MILIBAND IN FALSE CLAIM BETTER APOLOGISE:
bgarvie wrote:
Saturday, 31 October 2009 at 06:12 am (UTC)
"What the Polish Chief Rabbi said today was very very clear. He said that this man, this Leader of this mainstream Polish party is not anti-Semitic. And I think now David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, does need to think again and does need to withdraw very serious accusations he's made and does need to apologise. Bandying around accusations of anti-Semitism as a British Foreign Secretary about a mainstream party in Europe I think is quite wrong and David Miliband needs to recognise that, as I'm sure he now will."What the Polish Chief Rabbi said today was very very clear. He said that this man, this Leader of this mainstream Polish party is not anti-Semitic. And I think now David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, does need to think again and does need to withdraw very serious accusations he's made and does need to apologise. Bandying around accusations of anti-Semitism as a British Foreign Secretary about a mainstream party in Europe I think is quite wrong and David Miliband needs to recognise that, as I'm sure he now will.v
Poland
pilsden wrote:
Saturday, 31 October 2009 at 10:35 am (UTC)
This is becoming political Rhetoric(smear?)playing with peoples lack of knowledge and understanding of the circumstances and pressures involved.

Why did the Labour government entertain this man if he was so beyond the pale?
Have your read Charles Crawford who seems to have been in Poland as the Ambassador? if not try here
http://charlescrawford.biz/MSH8MB288721
Is it sensible for the UK Foreign Secretary to act in this manner given their previous acceptance and help from the Law and Order party re EU budget.Seems to be odd way of conducting diplomacy to slag of politicians of another member state for political gain.

Advertisement

Syndicate

RSS Atom

Report Comment

To report an offensive comment for review, please send a Personal Message and provide a link to the comment. The moderators will review it and take action if necessary.
Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by chasethestars